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	<title>Comments on: Spartan Football End of Year Report:  Part Three</title>
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	<link>http://spartannation.com/2013/02/25/spartan-football-end-of-year-report-part-three/</link>
	<description>Your Home for Michigan State, Big Ten &#38; Detroit Pro Sports News</description>
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		<title>By: john a</title>
		<link>http://spartannation.com/2013/02/25/spartan-football-end-of-year-report-part-three/comment-page-1/#comment-79458</link>
		<dc:creator>john a</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Feb 2013 00:45:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spartannation.com/?p=28186#comment-79458</guid>
		<description>All season long frustrated fans complained about roushar and the offense coaches. Hondo defended them. Now it turns out that they were the problem after all, as logic would show that if it takes more money to hire better coaches, and msu doesn&#039;t have as much money as they&#039;d like, then their coaches aren&#039;t as good as they should be. ie, if dantonio had more money, he&#039;d trade up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All season long frustrated fans complained about roushar and the offense coaches. Hondo defended them. Now it turns out that they were the problem after all, as logic would show that if it takes more money to hire better coaches, and msu doesn&#8217;t have as much money as they&#8217;d like, then their coaches aren&#8217;t as good as they should be. ie, if dantonio had more money, he&#8217;d trade up.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://spartannation.com/2013/02/25/spartan-football-end-of-year-report-part-three/comment-page-1/#comment-79455</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2013 02:55:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spartannation.com/?p=28186#comment-79455</guid>
		<description>Hondo, when Reid Fragel was being recruited, the Detroit News asked him why not MSU? He stated that MSU wanted him at OT and he wanted to stay at TE.  He did not want to have to get that big.

Coach D and his staff also saw a great prospect for OT in Fragel, but the kid was not interested in being a OT then.  Wasn&#039;t too hard for the OSU guy to figure that out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hondo, when Reid Fragel was being recruited, the Detroit News asked him why not MSU? He stated that MSU wanted him at OT and he wanted to stay at TE.  He did not want to have to get that big.</p>
<p>Coach D and his staff also saw a great prospect for OT in Fragel, but the kid was not interested in being a OT then.  Wasn&#8217;t too hard for the OSU guy to figure that out.</p>
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		<title>By: Pete</title>
		<link>http://spartannation.com/2013/02/25/spartan-football-end-of-year-report-part-three/comment-page-1/#comment-79454</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2013 21:35:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spartannation.com/?p=28186#comment-79454</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m sorry but no coach is worth mid 6 figures let alone 7.  I may enjoy watching a winning team but, if coaches are worth millions (and the business of college football can afford to pay them), then players are worth tens of thousands and they&#039;re not getting paid at all.  It&#039;s the players that take the risks and the value of an athletic scholarship is rather small when you consider that many players work full time year round to satisfy the strictures of the athletic program.  I&#039;m sure there are coaches who complain how tough their lives are as they sip mint juleps at their Lake Michigan homes in the summertime, but the players are the ones who deserve more than what they&#039;re getting, not the coaches.

As far as coaching talent is concerned, the people in West Michigan knew they had an excellent coach at GVSU by the name of Brian Kelly.  MSU wasn&#039;t interested.  Chuck Martin was also a very good football coach at GVSU.  MSU wasn&#039;t interested.  Butch Jones was an up and comer coach that somehow got a job at Central Michigan.  MSU wasn&#039;t interested.  Tony Annese at Ferris State has a track record of winning everywhere he goes.  MSU isn&#039;t interested.  Even Peter Strursma, who coaches at East Grand Rapids High School, is a better Xs and Os coach than many of MSUs past head coaches, coordinators, and position coaches.  Again, MSU isn&#039;t interested.  Guys like these move on to places where their talent is appreciated and MSU hires Roushars and other good old football boys.  All great coaches understand that they won&#039;t get the big bucks right away and they&#039;re willing to wait until they prove they are worthy which they eventually do.  But MSU coaches want the big bucks now and, in my opinion, haven&#039;t proved that they deserve it.  Meyer and company went undefeated with a vagabond team from inherited from the former coaches.  What has MSU done with their own players?

There is something to be said for Avis&#039; line &quot;We try harder!&quot;  If you know you are at a disadvantage, try harder!  Why is it that a rather continual stream of offensive lineman sign at U of M?  They all know that they won&#039;t all play.  They all know that, if they play, they&#039;ll play as juniors and seniors.  They all know that there will be pressure on them to drop out if they don&#039;t live up to lofty expectations.  But one after another signs with U of M while our coaches have a hard time selling playing time and opportunity to JuCos and 3 star high school recruits.  I don&#039;t think the MSU football program is trying harder or, at least, they are the poorest of salesmen.

There isn&#039;t a direct relationship between money and talent, big budgets and big results.  Some organizations just never get it largely because they are staffed by and supported by, for lack of a better term; losers.  The Detroit Lions come to mind.  I hope MSU is not in this category but this series of articles tells me otherwise.  Again, play with what you&#039;ve got.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sorry but no coach is worth mid 6 figures let alone 7.  I may enjoy watching a winning team but, if coaches are worth millions (and the business of college football can afford to pay them), then players are worth tens of thousands and they&#8217;re not getting paid at all.  It&#8217;s the players that take the risks and the value of an athletic scholarship is rather small when you consider that many players work full time year round to satisfy the strictures of the athletic program.  I&#8217;m sure there are coaches who complain how tough their lives are as they sip mint juleps at their Lake Michigan homes in the summertime, but the players are the ones who deserve more than what they&#8217;re getting, not the coaches.</p>
<p>As far as coaching talent is concerned, the people in West Michigan knew they had an excellent coach at GVSU by the name of Brian Kelly.  MSU wasn&#8217;t interested.  Chuck Martin was also a very good football coach at GVSU.  MSU wasn&#8217;t interested.  Butch Jones was an up and comer coach that somehow got a job at Central Michigan.  MSU wasn&#8217;t interested.  Tony Annese at Ferris State has a track record of winning everywhere he goes.  MSU isn&#8217;t interested.  Even Peter Strursma, who coaches at East Grand Rapids High School, is a better Xs and Os coach than many of MSUs past head coaches, coordinators, and position coaches.  Again, MSU isn&#8217;t interested.  Guys like these move on to places where their talent is appreciated and MSU hires Roushars and other good old football boys.  All great coaches understand that they won&#8217;t get the big bucks right away and they&#8217;re willing to wait until they prove they are worthy which they eventually do.  But MSU coaches want the big bucks now and, in my opinion, haven&#8217;t proved that they deserve it.  Meyer and company went undefeated with a vagabond team from inherited from the former coaches.  What has MSU done with their own players?</p>
<p>There is something to be said for Avis&#8217; line &#8220;We try harder!&#8221;  If you know you are at a disadvantage, try harder!  Why is it that a rather continual stream of offensive lineman sign at U of M?  They all know that they won&#8217;t all play.  They all know that, if they play, they&#8217;ll play as juniors and seniors.  They all know that there will be pressure on them to drop out if they don&#8217;t live up to lofty expectations.  But one after another signs with U of M while our coaches have a hard time selling playing time and opportunity to JuCos and 3 star high school recruits.  I don&#8217;t think the MSU football program is trying harder or, at least, they are the poorest of salesmen.</p>
<p>There isn&#8217;t a direct relationship between money and talent, big budgets and big results.  Some organizations just never get it largely because they are staffed by and supported by, for lack of a better term; losers.  The Detroit Lions come to mind.  I hope MSU is not in this category but this series of articles tells me otherwise.  Again, play with what you&#8217;ve got.</p>
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		<title>By: st8grad</title>
		<link>http://spartannation.com/2013/02/25/spartan-football-end-of-year-report-part-three/comment-page-1/#comment-79451</link>
		<dc:creator>st8grad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2013 03:14:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spartannation.com/?p=28186#comment-79451</guid>
		<description>Pete- I&#039;ve disagreed with many of your takes on the football program, mainly because they are over the top negative. However, you also do make some sound arguments. I am positive by the tone of your post you are very anti-corporate America. I&#039;m not trying to get into a debate about big government as the savior bullsh** vs. corporate &quot;greed.&quot;

But coaches are worth exactly what someone is willing to pay for them. Yes there are a lot of good coaches available for average money. But there are schools that are also willing to toss money at proven coordinators and position coaches and snatch them right out from underneath us. Money isn&#039;t everything in a job, but if it is the difference between 300k and 500k per year, a coach is going to give that serious consideration. 1 year and his kids college education is paid for, plus the money he was already making. 

Coaching may not be rocket science, but fielding a team with your high school playbook, and possible fundamental knowledge of the game, even Eastern Michigan would have your pants down around your ankles faster than you could say socialism. 

In summary, yes you go to war with what you have. But Hondo&#039;s point is that MSU is not allowing athletics to maximize its ability. They have the resources to spend more...allow them to do that. 

If it were only as simple as just going to get someone better for each position, then every team in the country would be staffed with the second comings of George Halas. 

I know in Michigan it&#039;s very hard for people to understand pay for performance, but the best coaches are in demand, and they command more money. They have results. Head coaches want guys with results. They pay for results...MSU has a history of guys like Chris Smeland. Chris Smeland!!! And Roushar.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pete- I&#8217;ve disagreed with many of your takes on the football program, mainly because they are over the top negative. However, you also do make some sound arguments. I am positive by the tone of your post you are very anti-corporate America. I&#8217;m not trying to get into a debate about big government as the savior bullsh** vs. corporate &#8220;greed.&#8221;</p>
<p>But coaches are worth exactly what someone is willing to pay for them. Yes there are a lot of good coaches available for average money. But there are schools that are also willing to toss money at proven coordinators and position coaches and snatch them right out from underneath us. Money isn&#8217;t everything in a job, but if it is the difference between 300k and 500k per year, a coach is going to give that serious consideration. 1 year and his kids college education is paid for, plus the money he was already making. </p>
<p>Coaching may not be rocket science, but fielding a team with your high school playbook, and possible fundamental knowledge of the game, even Eastern Michigan would have your pants down around your ankles faster than you could say socialism. </p>
<p>In summary, yes you go to war with what you have. But Hondo&#8217;s point is that MSU is not allowing athletics to maximize its ability. They have the resources to spend more&#8230;allow them to do that. </p>
<p>If it were only as simple as just going to get someone better for each position, then every team in the country would be staffed with the second comings of George Halas. </p>
<p>I know in Michigan it&#8217;s very hard for people to understand pay for performance, but the best coaches are in demand, and they command more money. They have results. Head coaches want guys with results. They pay for results&#8230;MSU has a history of guys like Chris Smeland. Chris Smeland!!! And Roushar.</p>
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		<title>By: Pete</title>
		<link>http://spartannation.com/2013/02/25/spartan-football-end-of-year-report-part-three/comment-page-1/#comment-79450</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2013 01:34:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://spartannation.com/?p=28186#comment-79450</guid>
		<description>So there is no choice; either spend the money and hire the very best talent with the credentials and experience you think you need or fail miserably because the talent and experience you have on staff just isn&#039;t good enough.  Gee, if we thought about players the way you propose we think about coaches (and since our recruits rank below those from OSU and U of M), why bother playing the game?  I don&#039;t buy this line of reasoning.  It&#039;s just a bit of corporate America leaking down to competitive athletics and, of course, it isn&#039;t supposed to be &quot;realistic&quot; unless by &quot;realistic&quot; you mean that it&#039;s supposed to make a few people very rich.  What&#039;s the solution to this impossible conundrum of getting good coaches at salaries MSU can afford?

There are literally tens of thousands of coaches in the college game.  There are also hundreds of coaches in the pro game who are relatively unknown and who don&#039;t make big bucks.  With a pool this large and since football is not rocket science, why is it so difficult to get good coaches for low to mid six figure salaries?  The answer is that it isn&#039;t, but it is difficult to hire guys with talent and experience to throw in with a head coach they believe themselves to be superior to.  This category of coaches doesn&#039;t mind playing second fiddle so long as they get paid for it and the head coach doesn&#039;t get in the way of what they want to do.  MSU can&#039;t afford and shouldn&#039;t want these guys.

So why doesn&#039;t MSU go out and hire coaches who do have talent, but are relatively unknown?  Well, the college coaching profession is willing to restrain itself from gaining an advantage by turning over coaching personnel if that&#039;s what it takes to make coaching a more lucrative profession.  If Hondo thinks coaches won football games by hiring brainiac assistants, then it&#039;s reasonable to assume that coaches can lose football games by choosing not to hire them.  Instead, we hear the continuous whining that, if you want great coaches, you have to pay enormously for them and, if nothing else, corporate America has taught us that, if you tell somebody something long enough, eventually they will believe you.  So the weenie the coaching profession is hiding is that none of these coaches are worth what they&#039;re getting paid.  Apparently, you can steal recruits from each other but don&#039;t say that its more about opportunity than talent because that would be blasphemy.  It might even catch on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So there is no choice; either spend the money and hire the very best talent with the credentials and experience you think you need or fail miserably because the talent and experience you have on staff just isn&#8217;t good enough.  Gee, if we thought about players the way you propose we think about coaches (and since our recruits rank below those from OSU and U of M), why bother playing the game?  I don&#8217;t buy this line of reasoning.  It&#8217;s just a bit of corporate America leaking down to competitive athletics and, of course, it isn&#8217;t supposed to be &#8220;realistic&#8221; unless by &#8220;realistic&#8221; you mean that it&#8217;s supposed to make a few people very rich.  What&#8217;s the solution to this impossible conundrum of getting good coaches at salaries MSU can afford?</p>
<p>There are literally tens of thousands of coaches in the college game.  There are also hundreds of coaches in the pro game who are relatively unknown and who don&#8217;t make big bucks.  With a pool this large and since football is not rocket science, why is it so difficult to get good coaches for low to mid six figure salaries?  The answer is that it isn&#8217;t, but it is difficult to hire guys with talent and experience to throw in with a head coach they believe themselves to be superior to.  This category of coaches doesn&#8217;t mind playing second fiddle so long as they get paid for it and the head coach doesn&#8217;t get in the way of what they want to do.  MSU can&#8217;t afford and shouldn&#8217;t want these guys.</p>
<p>So why doesn&#8217;t MSU go out and hire coaches who do have talent, but are relatively unknown?  Well, the college coaching profession is willing to restrain itself from gaining an advantage by turning over coaching personnel if that&#8217;s what it takes to make coaching a more lucrative profession.  If Hondo thinks coaches won football games by hiring brainiac assistants, then it&#8217;s reasonable to assume that coaches can lose football games by choosing not to hire them.  Instead, we hear the continuous whining that, if you want great coaches, you have to pay enormously for them and, if nothing else, corporate America has taught us that, if you tell somebody something long enough, eventually they will believe you.  So the weenie the coaching profession is hiding is that none of these coaches are worth what they&#8217;re getting paid.  Apparently, you can steal recruits from each other but don&#8217;t say that its more about opportunity than talent because that would be blasphemy.  It might even catch on.</p>
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